In this episode I (Sam Believ) interview Oliver Glozik.
Many people who drink Ayahuasca dream about starting their own Ayahuasca retreat, however it is not as easy as it looks. In this episode we discuss the difficulties of running an #ayahuasca #retreat
LaWayra Ayahuasca retreat http://www.lawayra.com
Transcript
Sam Believ: You’re listening to ayahuasca podcast.com.
Hi guys, and welcome to ayahuasca podcast.com. Today we’re joined by Oliver, Oliver. Yes, Oliver is a he runs an Ayahuasca retreat called Guac. Majo, also here in the vicinity of JE Columbia. Me, myself, as always, I believe from the wire retreat. This is where we’re filming from right now. As you can see, as you can probably see the beautiful view behind us.
So in this episode, we’re going to talk about Ayahuasca, but from the point of view of a facilitator, because not a lot of people focus on that. And a lot of people ask us questions about how it is running a an ayahuasca retreat, you know, how do you do to, you know, talk to so many people and the stories and and so forth.
So today we’re gonna shed some light on that and hopefully you’ll enjoy it. And welcome to Ayahuasca podcast guys. Oliver welcome. Thank you very much. Introduce yourself. Where are you from? Where are you here? What brought you
Oliver Glozik: here? Well, I’ve been living in Columbia for two years now. I was born and raised in Germany, and both my parents are Hungarian.
And yes, we’re looking forward to this episode and it’s pretty interesting. We started, I think, with this whole mission that each of us have at very similar times. Two years ago and to see how the things have grown over the for each one of us. And not just like the, the facilities, the, the retreats, but also the personal growth that’s happening within us is amazing.
And what I’m very passionate about and what I love is the fulfilling aspect and the fulfilling nature of the, of running a retreat center. Because you really see the changes that people are going through. And before I was building a video marketing company for software and IT companies, and I mean, that’s something which you objectively look at, like, okay, video marketing videos are on the rise.
Software companies, software companies are on the rise. All of that is great, but for me it was mostly money motivated. And there’s nothing wrong with making a lot of money or wanting to make a lot of money, but if that’s the main motivation. For you to do something. Mm-hmm. There’s going to be there’s more to life and also you will never have that level of enthusiasm, excitement, passion that extra bit if that’s your mo main motivation.
And yeah, it’s started my ayahuasca journey in Germany and now I’m happy that we’re with the journey developed. And we also mentioned that you know, this is not something that you plan on. No, I want to do ayahuasca retrieve, but doors open. You don’t come to
Sam Believ: ayahuasca. Ayahuasca comes to you. You don’t plan Ayahuasca.
Ayahuasca find you just comes like, you know, come, let’s hang out. Interesting note. So Oliver was born in Hungary, right? Mm-hmm. So Hungary, no. Germany. Five parents were born in Germany. Both parents are Hungary. But you’re, you’re ethnically hung anyways, like. We’re, we’re fellow Eastern Europeans. And like you know, how, how little is the possibility that two people from the east part of Europe end up here in Columbia working with a very unique medicine, which is, we probably never heard about it till we grew up, right?
Till we travel to South America. This is like completely outside of our reality. But still, we ended up here and working and, and doing pretty well both for ourselves and for the people that come to us. And the first subject that I want to touch upon, and you touched upon it, is money, right? For those of you who are listening who want to start Naas retreat for money to make money, and you can make money without Oscar retreat there are easier ways to make money.
Please don’t do it. Please don’t do it. It’s do it. If it’s your calling if it comes out from, first of all, from the point of. Passionate about plant medicines and helping other people. If you do it for money, you’re gonna fail. And I’ve seen so many people try it and because it looks so simple on the surface, but hopefully after this podcast episode, you’ll know it’s not.
But ayahuasca Retreat is a business. It’s still a business. You still need to, to pay the bills and pay the workers and pay the venue and the food and organize everything. Running an Ayahuasca retreat is like running a hotel, a restaurant, a spiritual retreat, and a psych ward. And we’ll talk, and we’ll talk about that later as well.
But there are much more easier ways to make money. And my, my background was offshore and gas. I would make a lot of money, but I would be so, so unhappy. Like you just make money and you spend money and you’re solace. What really keeps us going, and I’m talking for both of us, is when you get a person to the retreat.
And it gives me goosebumps immediately to get a person to the retreat who says like, I bought a one way ticket. I’m gonna, if this doesn’t work, I’m gonna kill myself. That happened to you over,
Oliver Glozik: I’ve that specific situation, did not I’ve had people there who’ve had suicidal thoughts before, some more present than others, but that specific situation with
Sam Believ: like one way tickets, no, it happened to us couple times.
Like literally like, this is my last chance. Nothing else works. And guess what? Those people are still happy running around. Still alive and better than ever before. So this honestly, this is one of the examples, but suicidal ideation is only one of them. There’s people from all sorts of backgrounds and all sorts of different traumas, and they come here.
Yeah. And, you know, good, good medicine, good facilitation, and just one week can, can completely change their lives. And when, when those people come to you and they’re grateful and they’re happy and they hug you and they, you know, you might not be making a lot of money, but this is so much more fulfilling.
What is in your experience, Oliver, what is the, what are those motivators, what are those situations with people that, that keep you going in this not so easy line of work?
Oliver Glozik: Mm. I’m gonna start with a selfish one. And I feel a lot of growth within me throughout my ayahuasca journey. The level of stability that I feel in my life, the clarity that I have for my.
For my future, the vision that I want to create. And also, you know, it’s one thing to have a vision, it’s a, another one is how much do you believe in it, believe in it, and how much of that can also be your reality? And also before, I mean I was always a very ambitious person, but after a couple of business failures, sometimes I was also like doubting myself as like, you know, can it really work for, for me?
And now I feel a lot of self-confidence, self-worth, and just the journey that I’m on that is I, I love that. And I think it’s great to have all of these and you need to have that of course as well, if you are running a Ayahuasca retreat the impact you want to create and, and help others. I also think it’s good to maintain certain goals for yourself as well, because if you just live for other people.
You’re gonna burn out, but if you feel the positive effects for yourself as well. So that’s obviously one for me that I feel great. And my dad visited me and he said when he was 30, he had, what is it called when you like, like that lower back pain and you need like surgery sciatica
or
Oliver Glozik: herniated disc?
I, I think the herniated disc. Yes. And he said like he was you know, sick when he was 30. And he sees how how much energy I have, the way I carry myself. My, my mom, I didn’t tell her my parents in the beginning when I went on is Ayahuasca journey. After about four months, my mom noticed my eyes were a lot brighter and my smile was coming back.
And, you know, that’s what moms care about. So
Sam Believ: the best way to advertise ayahuasca is to do it yourself. And when people notice and ask you like, what the hell is that you doing to yourself?
Oliver Glozik: So that living a good life for myself, you know, we also talked about being self-sustainable, about the solar panels, eating good food living in nature.
I mean, I couldn’t imagine living in a city again after having so much beautiful nature around you. And you know, if you live in a city, there’s a lot of confusion, always somewhere to go. And if there’s nature, there’s so much harmony. And when there’s harmony outside of you, there’s harmony inside of you as well.
Sam Believ: So, starting in Ayahuasca retreat and being a facilitator or a founder, it’s kinda like putting yourself in a position where you have no choice but heal. Like you surround yourself with constant people who are growing. You surround yourself with word circles, sharing circles, medicine, and even sometimes, you know, let’s be realistic, life happens and you get distracted.
And you are carried away to another less fruitful direction, but then because of that container you created for other people, you are in it yourself. And you can, you get constantly put back to healing, put back the healing. That happens to me all the time. I get, sometimes I get distracted with the business side of it, right?
We’re, we’re building some cabins now and you need to buy material, and then the guy wants to charge you more money and it’s constant, it’s business, right? Aya was running an IO retreat. You can hide it. Some, for some reason, some retreats out there. They, they really wanna hide the fact that it is a service for which you get to pay for which you get paid money, right?
They, they don’t call it, they don’t give you prices. They say it’s donation and they specify the amount of donations. Like I personally like, to be honest, here’s our treat. Here’s how much it costs, here’s what you get. It is a business people need to give, get paid. But there as a facilitator, you walk, you are walking that fine line when your one leg is, is in a spiritual space where you really want to help people and you want to heal the world.
And the other hand is like, how are you gonna pay the bills and pay all the workers and pay for all the improvements you want to do? It’s extremely difficult balance, but you have, you have to be open and like, I like to be open and just say like, yeah, this is a business and it’s a very difficult one.
And you said something about like being selfish, right? Which is, I’m sure you’re not selfish, but still, you know, for some reason in, in this field of work, there exists this misconception that people who work in in the healing space don’t deserve to get paid. It’s kind of like, you know, somebody comes from a, somebody goes to psychologist in us and spends.
Tens of thousands of dollars in over years to heal something, don’t get any healing. And then they come to, to a retreat and they, they need to pay five, $600. And then they like, you know, sort of rejected because this is, this feels wrong because spiritual people don’t need money, I guess, for some reason.
And then they get, like, some people, I’ve had people say anything from 10 to 20 years, they say like, it felt like 10 years of therapy. It felt like 15 years of therapy, 20 years of therapy all in one week for the price of like a medium hotel in, in, in the United States. And this is, have you experienced that yourself?
Like sort of, I can
Oliver Glozik: tell a interesting story. Somebody stories are the best actually said that to Mama Concha. The indigenous elder that I’m working with as well that, you know, this is healing work and you shouldn’t charge money for that, and all that kind of stuff. And she got pretty angry at it.
And I gave her like an ihu of wine and said like, if you want to, you can eat it or do whatever with it. Because even before our work starts, there’s so much work before that comes into it. Yeah. Like the plant needs to be planted, cared for the process of cooking, ayahuasca, carrying the heavy logs multiple days.
They have to pay their workers, they have to. Yeah. Like it’s it’s, it is a business but it’s also a very special type of business. And I think what you cannot, what you have to be attentive of is, you mentioned that you wanna make money, don’t buy an I retreat because there’s so many other ways to make money easier ways.
Yeah. And a lot easier ways as well. And I noticed that let’s say a successful entrepreneur comes to Ayahuasca and receives a lot of healing, and then he or she is like, okay, I wanna create an Ayahuasca retreat myself. And because they have that business background, they’re like, okay, I, I can do this.
And then they start. And I think that’s where some of the traps are more more present because they use the ways they built their business mm-hmm. Into an Ayahuasca retreat. And it’s still a also, I, I like to say, you know, participants, but in reality the people who come through retreat on a level are also patients because they are suffering emotionally.
They have things that they carry WW with them. And if you only think very coldly, okay. What is my lead lead cost per lead? Mm-hmm. How many people do I need to talk to? What’s the customer lifetime value? All that kind of stuff. And you’re just like too focused on that. People feel that.
Yeah.
Oliver Glozik: And you don’t want that.
And of course it’s still a business. You need to know what you’re doing and also run your numbers, all that kind of stuff. But the most important is that people feel understood. They feel cared for when they, when they come, they feel an open heart. They’re greeted,
they feel
Oliver Glozik: Yes. And they are, they come here as a person and not as a client.
Yeah.
Oliver Glozik: Because if people feel like they are a client, it’s just like, how many people can I get through as, as to, as high of a price as possible?
Sam Believ: No, the,
Oliver Glozik: the,
Sam Believ: the spirit is missing. So it will, it will never work out, man. It’s, and it’s funny because. IAS itself is a conscious thing.
Mm-hmm.
Sam Believ: So you can do everything right.
You can go to a retreat and you can, you know, copy it Exactly. And you can do everything right. And it’ll still not work. Like you can get 20 people and they will get sicker after the retreat because you need, there, there’s, there’s some very special ingredient, which is that, you know, the soul, soul aspect of it.
And can
Oliver Glozik: I, can I ask something on top of that? Sure. And one word that comes to my mind is integrity. And the higher we live our lives in integrity, the more power our words and our actions have. So one of the reasons why Ayahuasca was also very transformational for me, I first drank it in Germany with a shaman who I met me before.
He lived two years in Columbia and Mima as well before he was a very successful at business, was physically very fit. He was doing the ceremonies with his wife, with his brother, with his brother’s wives brother wi one wife. He, he has two kids now and he was one of the few people who I’ve met who had his life figured out in different areas on a high level.
’cause you meet people who make a lot of money, then you look at the way they, their situation with their family is, or to drugs or whatever, and it’s like I’m not sure if I want to follow down that path. And he was a very inspirational person that I met and he said certain things to me that I’ve heard them before, but because they were coming from a place of power because they were coming from a place of integrity.
That started
to move
Oliver Glozik: things in me, the message got delivered. Yes. And I think that refers to what you said, you can do this same without like the soul and just like get people to a ceremonial or whatever. But if the main facilitator or the people who, the person who welcomes them and guides them throughout this whole journey is not about his life.
I mean, people are very easy to have that sense for authenticity, for realness, and they just like sense, like, yeah, I don’t know.
Sam Believ: Yeah. So it is a balancing act because as facilitators, I’m sure same with you, I can just stay here in the nature with my diet and drink ayahuasca every few days and just be very spiritual and just forget about the rest of the world and just you know, connect with the nature.
Blend with the nature and like become a, being a pure Latin, like disintegrate. The last part was a joke and this, this would be great for me, but probably not great for my family and for, for the retreat and for all the people that we can host. Because if you want have people over at the retreat and the, and the, the reason it, it seems so simple, right, for me is you usually have a retreat and people come and they drink medicine, they get healing and they leave.
But people rarely ask themselves is like, where did all these people come from? Right? You need to get in front of people, which is very difficult. More on days because everyone is competing for everyone’s attention. And there’s, there are things much more attractive than ayahuasca. Like you can watch, watch short videos on, on YouTube and get your dopamine hits and never want to get your healing.
So finding a group of. 10, 20 people that want to come to an Ayahuasca retreat and, you know, sort of risk their lives because it, if you read on the internet, it seems like it’s such a dangerous thing to do and come over and, and take the leap of healing. And so for every person that comes to my retreat, I can say I speak to at least five people.
Hmm. So it means that for every person that you see at the retreat, I have a conversation with, with four more people that never, never show up. It. And it’s people that, that send me emails and they send me WhatsApp messages and I have to take time off you know, me being with my family or just enjoying my life and reply.
And you have to reply quickly. Mm. ’cause if you don’t reply quick, quickly, people lose interest and they go somewhere else, or they forget about the, the idea altogether. And how do you deal with it, Oliver, in, in your work like all the, all the compensations and not only speaking to people that are about to come or who will never will come, and people who came that still need your help.
Mm-hmm.
Oliver Glozik: That’s an area that I struggle with. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s there’s the people who wanna come to retreat, but then also the people after retreat, they still have a lot of questions they message you. And yeah, it’s, it’s difficult because what I really enjoy is being present with the people.
You know, we’ve had great conversations before and your phone was going off a bunch of times. My phone was going off. And but I value the time that we spend here and to enjoy those moments instead of like replying to everybody right away. So it’s definitely something that I am working on improving to be faster on replies, all that kind of stuff.
But yes, it’s what you mentioned, like the, the hotel aspect, the restaurant aspect and the marketing aspect, the online aspect. Mm-hmm. And it’s something very personal because in a way it’s a. Open heart surgery on your psyche that’s happening on ayahuasca, and where are you gonna go? Where do you feel comfortable?
Where do you feel safe? And I think it’s also amazing that we create those places for people to have these types of experiences because I mean there’s also other, especially here in Columbia more local ceremonies and there’s a lot of magic that can happen in those environments as well. I had a retreat participant, he was in the jungle and he drank with a tighter there, but they were hiking like 25 minutes up in the jungle and had like very, like the bathroom was like, I don’t wanna talk about how the bathroom was.
But he also then had the thought like, well, what if something happens? And that thought alone didn’t allow him to let go and make the experience that he needed to make because yeah, there was. That thought it there, like what if something happens? And so we put a lot of attention into creating this space where people feel safe, where people feel understood, where people feel listened to, where you have conversations before, what they expect from ayahuasca.
Of course, nobody can tell you how you are ayahuasca experience is going to be. But having those conversations before feeling safe, it’s it’s very powerful. And then also the conversations after. And so it’s a lot of work that goes into it.
Sam Believ: Yeah, it’s a lot of work and we have to always be, you know, both spiritual and also like taking care of the, the physical, physical aspects of it.
Yeah.
Oliver Glozik: Can I add one more thing there? Sure. Because, you know, I first from Germany, I, I came to Punyo the Colombian jungle and had very transformative ceremonies there. And that might path led me to me regime. And I’m very happy that I am here because I think it’s one thing to be feel at peace and harmonious and all that kind of stuff when you remove all the external triggers.
But by actually building a business, by dealing with rejections, by dealing with people who are dealing with their stuff, projecting that onto you. How can you stay with the trigger? How can you respond and not react? And I think that’s just the spiritual is you. I think you, I could argue even more spiritual of running a business than sitting on the under a tree and meditating all day.
So I like that level of growth that’s happening through that.
Sam Believ: It’s easy to be peaceful when there is no negative stimuli, right? Mm-hmm. It’s like, yeah, you just you hear the nature and there’s no people coming and annoying you and. Making you feel bad or like triggering your trauma. And then you can, of course, everyone can feel spiritual, but the real spirituality comes through when, when there are issues and you can, you’re still withstanding them and you know, striving under that environment.
But something you said about nature as well. Right. Once again, it’s, it’s a balancing act. It’s a kinda like if you, if if you see behind us, there’s, there’s a lot of nature, right? But we kind of, in the countryside, we’re not in the jungle, which means that you know, there’s a hospital five minutes away, but you’re still surrounded by nature, which is important.
But, but still, there’s this commodities and you can go and take a bus and go to Meine. You don’t need to hike for, for three days and take a boat and then a horse, and then so it’s, it’s finding that balance between nature and civilization. It’s finding that balance between spirituality and business.
Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s also finding balance between, you know, helping others grow and like focusing on your own growth. It’s, life is a balancing act, right? This kinda shows it so, so clearly as a, as facilitators, we do have one perk, which is ihu was itself like, you can, you can get a which is, which happens really, really rarely, but you can get a very unhappy, ungrateful person that for some reason resists their healing with Ayahuasca while at your retreat.
It happens to us extremely rarely, but when it does, you can get hundred five star reviews. But that one, one star review will hurt more than, than the 505 star reviews will. It’s kind of, I don’t know why my brain personally works that way, but it’s always like focusing on fixing the problem. And then let’s say life kicked you down and things happen and, problems and people, and then you just drink ayahuasca, you drink ayahuasca, and it puts you back on your track. It sort of pats you on the back and tells you, this is the way you go. And like, I’m here to help you and you’re on the right path. And it doesn’t make all your problems go away, but it changes your attitude to your problems where they don’t seem that big.
So that’s, that’s an, that’s an unfair advantage Yeah. Of, of being a, an ayahuasca facilitator because you, first of all, you put yourself in position where you have no choice but heal. Because even if you don’t drink ayahuasca yourself, but you participate in the board circles and you hear other people’s story, some of them they really appeal to you because they show you something about your life and you can’t help it, but, but grow.
It’s like you do word circles at you’re retreat as well. Absolutely. Right? Mm-hmm. What, what, what do you think about that concept altogether, and what do you think about the sheer. Enormous amount of wisdom that just comes out of those.
Oliver Glozik: Mm, I love it. I think it’s very important. Also one thing that I like to tell people is for the indigenous, they believe the, the message that comes through them, through the ayahuasca is a secret that is just revealed to them.
And so they don’t share their ayahuasca ceremonies, but they also say you have a different level of connection with ayahuasca if you grow up in the Amazon and if you’re indigenous than when you’re a software developer drinking ayahuasca for the first time. But keep that in mind. Do not share your ayahuasca ceremony with the whole world because most people will not understand.
And through the word circles, I always say like, share as much as you want to share, but don’t feel the pressure to share because maybe the person next to you goes deep into their trauma or what happened to them. But you’re not ready to share maybe certain things that came up for you, and that’s totally fine as well.
And and say whatever you want to say. And also I think it’s a challenge for us as facilitators as well to help people find the answers within themselves, right? Because, I mean, we’re not perfect. Maybe I put a projection on somebody else, and that’s just my projection and not their reality.
And especially when they’re in a very sensitive state and you, they could see that as truth. But it’s the biggest truth is always the one that you find out about yourself. And I had a retreat recently where somebody was like, well, you think this is what my ayahuasca vision mean? And I told, mm-hmm.
Well, first it’s your ayahuasca vision and. You need to understand your ayahuasca vision, and I can give certain impulses
Sam Believ: on the, you can know the language your subconscious speaks to you. Yes. Yeah. It’s another balancing act. Right. As, as Oliver said, some indigenous communities might not like the word circles.
Right. So we also try and find balance between sort of western approach to integration and healing and, you know, psychology in general while using those, those plants. So it’s kinda like a lot, a lot of times in the ceremony, right? You could have a title that can say, women drink, men drink first, and women drink second.
And you’re like, well, that’s kind of uncomfortable for you as a facilitator to explain to people. And he will say, like, that’s what my granddad told me. And you’re like, where’s, how do you, how do you breach that line between two oppositely, the metrically opposite things. And it’s kinda like. Trying to please all of them.
And it’s like, as a facility, you constantly like balancing, trying to make everyone comfortable. And also yeah, I lost my train of thought.
Oliver Glozik: I can add one more thing. Something that happened that a retreat this year, so I also do holotropic breathwork, holotropic breath work sessions, be before the ceremonies, like not right before the ceremony, but the day of the ceremony.
And I also told the people that I will have some friends coming over for the ice bath that we do after the holotropic breath work. And so we were just finishing up the the, the breath work session. And then a friend came and I asked her if she can do some cleaning with Palo Santo to, to the people.
And I also did, did, did it like she did it like one side of the room, I split it to the other side of the room. And one person opened her eyes or his eyes, and then he saw somebody that he never saw before, like being somewhat close to him with the a Palo Santo. And he was like, didn’t like that, let’s put it that way.
And later I heard through that he wasn’t too happy about the situ. Like he, he said like, oh, I didn’t like that people came for, for the ice bath and all that kind of stuff. And I was like thinking, like, first reaction that came up for me, I shared that before the retreat that people will be coming for an ice bath and mm-hmm.
It wasn’t a problem and now it’s this problem and like, oh, why does he need to be so sensitive and all that kind of stuff. That was like a very quick thing that came up for me. Mm-hmm. And then I meditated on that a bit and then I was like, well, he was in a very sensitive state and in that sensitive state, somebody who he never seen before was.
Doing you know, with public, it’s, it’s not like, like as close as like you, you, you and I, for example. But I could then see that that threw him off. And I also, I had trust with that person, but he hasn’t established that trust. Mm-hmm. So I could see why he felt the way that he felt. And later I also went to him, had a conversation, resolved the issue.
And I think it’s not just like for us as facilitators, but for any time in life when you have that very quick reaction and also like blame it on somebody else. Also take a step back. Mm-hmm. See what mistakes or what some of your actions led to that outcome and fix those. And we mentioned that, you know, you’re humans as well.
Yeah. And we do make mistakes too. That’s
Sam Believ: another balancing act, right? You, you need to know people are sensitive and you try to be yourself. Hmm. While needing to understand that some people are sensitive. It happened to me a few day, a few days ago at the last retreat. One lady was leaving earlier, I came to her room to organize her a taxi, but she was in a dark room, in a bed in the corner.
Hmm.
Sam Believ: And I closed the door behind me because it was a ceremony time. It was a day ceremony. And I wanted to talk to her about organizing her taxi. But a girl outside of the ceremony space who was abused, she, she lived that same situation when there was a, a big guy entering a room, closing the door behind them, dark room.
And it triggered a lot of stuff in her. So it’s like obviously it’s hard for me to know that, or like, ’cause I’ve never lived that situation before. But we need to be so conscious beyond, you know, our own field of vision. Yes. To be like extra, extra careful. So like running an AAS retreat. Is, is, is a huge balancing act.
And you’re always walking on, how do you call it, eggshells, walking on eggshells. You, you can, if you make a little too much noise, it might trigger somebody if you, you know, sometimes just your presence alone. And this happened to me once and this was really uncomfortable. Just my presence alone would trigger somebody because it might remind them of someone.
And it’s, it is difficult, like people on ayahuasca, people very sensitive. You need to, sometimes the best thing you can do is just not be around. Like, you just have to observe from a distance. Like somebody might be having a difficult time in the ceremony and you have to know how to approach them.
’cause if you come from them, from the back, and you might pat them on the shoulder, it might trigger some memory from, you know, them being attacked or something like that. And they can run and start screaming. I I remember my the thought that I asked about the word circle subject. Is that I think indigenous people in some communities, they don’t need word circles because they have an unfair advantage of actually having a, a complete, full functioning family system.
Meaning that after the ceremony, they don’t need a word circle with bunch of people they just met. They go back to their family and they talk to them. They talk to their grandparents, their parents, because they, their families are still united and it’s, it’s not shaped as a circle, but they will be able to share and integrate their experience through those conversations.
And we as western society, a lot of times we don’t have those safety nets to fall into. So that’s why as a, as a responsible retreat, facilitators and operators, we need to provide people with that support. And I like to say the best way to make friends as an adult is to go out to an Ayahuasca retreat.
Because you come to, to this place of healing, you meet with 15, 20 strangers who also are ready for their healing. They will be here for themselves, but they’ll be here for you and you’ll be there for them. And you, you will not imagine how much people can bond within just one week. Mm-hmm. It’s, we get groups of people that met a year ago.
We still get photos. We create those WhatsApp groups and we still have photos of those people traveling together, doing cool things together. Mm-hmm. And whenever somebody has a problem, they, they write to the group and everyone supports them, and it’s just amazing. Have you experienced that in, in your in your work as well?
Oliver Glozik: I think that’s very amazing about those friendships that form throughout the Ayahuasca retreat, because in a way, the, the walls are down, right. If I meet somebody, when I go bowling or wherever. You know, you, you don’t talk about the stuff that you talk about in Ayahuasca Retreat. Yeah. It’s like, how are you?
I’m okay. Yeah. That’s about it. Yes. And there you’re like, no, actually, like these things are going on in my life. And then like yeah, in some ways for me too. And then you connect on those topics. And I like tell people to drop the mess. Be yourself as much as you can. Just be yourself. Imperfect people.
Connect with imperfect people. And it’s not about how many employees you have or how much money you make or this, that, or, or whatever, because you know, we are all humans looking to make this experience or looking to heal, looking to grow. And I think it’s actually pretty fascinating to think about. There is a group of 10, 15, 20 people coming together from all different walks of life, different age groups, and they get along, you know, because like of course these things like, or else are conflicts that can happen, all that kind of stuff.
But. Generally the vibe, the atmosphere is so positive and so beneficial and helping and understanding towards each other. I think that’s a miracle in and of itself as well.
Sam Believ: Yeah. Because in the end of the day, if you remove all the fluff and all the conditioning, we are all human. We are all connected.
Mm-hmm. Which is clearly seen with the medicine. You feel like part of each other. And we are all, we all love each other. Mm-hmm. When you take away the fluff and it’s difficult sometimes because people might hurt you and, but Ayahuasca does really help to connect with it. And I think the key and, and, and that’s what you said imperfect people you know, connect with people, connect with imperfect people.
What’s the key of that? We know, we all know we’re imperfect, but we don’t tell it to other people because we are afraid to be vulnerable. So without being vulnerable, you can’t break down those walls and establish real new collection connections. So it’s like creating that culture in the retreat when people can start sharing and they, they could be a person that, you know, would normally be offended by some other person.
And then now they accept them because they feel that there’s something beyond that. They’re like, it’s levels deeper than, than what we used to. And instead of having, you know, good morning, nice weather, how are you kind of conversations, you start noticing that as the retreat progresses, conversations get deeper and deeper and deeper until the point where there’s literally no shell conversation.
And people can start like, you know, like good morning. You know, I just grabbed about some trauma and like they just start talking about it ’cause it goes very deep. And I’ve noticed that I would say at AYA retreat. Yes. More than half of the feel, half of the healing comes from group and people themselves.
Mm-hmm. So I ask is that important trigger that makes it all happen, but it’s people themselves that can heal other people and you can heal another person while being healed yourself. Mm-hmm. How awesome is that?
Oliver Glozik: I think it’s incredible. Also, one time I did a man’s retreat was without any medicine. It was also just a four day retreat.
But people said that was for me, life changing for me. I gonna start to have certain conversations that I thought I will take to my grave and I was impressed by it because what I love about Ayahuasca is that Ayahuasca also does some of the work. It helps loosen up things, open people up, and there was nothing of that, but only the.
The presence of other people wanting to be there for you, supporting you, feeling understood, feeling listened to. That is something that so many people don’t feel on their day-to-day life because most of the times everybody just wants to talk. And then there’s two people just talking at each other. Both kind of just want the other person to listen, but none of the two people listen.
And, but if you listen to people, if you, not just like with your head about what I’m going to answer, but with your heart feel what they’re going through, that is so much what humanity wants. What creates that safety net of like, okay, there are people there that are there for me. And I agree that Ayahuasca incredible does so much of the work and the other part is also very, very important.
Sam Believ: Yeah, ayahuasca. It’s very important as this first step that unlocks things, but sometimes I ask is almost like an excuse to begin your healing. Right? Some people are ready and this is just what appeals to them and there’s a lot that can be done and just conversations and helpful guidance. But yeah, let’s not talk about too much positive things, right?
This episode is about us complaining about life of a vaso. Let’s not get carried away. Yeah, guys whether you come to my retreat or Oliver’s retreat or some other retreat don’t forget that the facilitator and the shaman and everyone that that runs the retreat has this concept of wounded healing wounded healer.
It’s like somebody who was so hurt that they found healing with this modality. And they’re getting healed themselves. And because they couple steps forward, they extend their arm to, you know, guide you and help you. And don’t forget that we’re all humans and something can be perfect, but always try and focus on the fact that we open our spaces, our hearts for the healing and, and you know, this transformation for other people to partake.
And we take a huge amount of joy and gratitude from those healing experiences because yeah, both you and me, there’s, I could make so much more money with doing other stuff, but that’s not about, that’s not about it. But in the end of the day, we do need to earn money and spend them accordingly. For example, like here, this retreat, we employ anywhere between 10 and 15 people every month.
And provide them with, you know, income to feed their families and the jobs that they wouldn’t, would otherwise not have. And it, it is silly as you said, to come and say like, oh, you’re, you’re in the line of healing and you should not, you know, you shouldn’t charge money. But it’s like, what do you, I, I mean, ayahuasca gives you a lot of things.
It gives you peace, it gives you growth and knowledge, but unfortunately there’s not, like you drink a ceremony and then you wake up next morning with your pockets full of money, right? It does give you abundance, but this abundance a lot of times comes through the exchange of the good energies and the, and the healing experience from us to the patients and from you to us.
It comes in the form of money that then comes from us and keeps going on cycle completes, and it’s all beautiful. But
Oliver Glozik: Can I add one more thing to it? No. Hundred percent. I think from the way it used to be with healers is that. Everybody would pay what they could pay. Mm-hmm. But in a way, the person who was very affluent would also pay significantly more than the person.
And that also allowed the healer, the shaman, whoever, to attend to the person who who couldn’t afford it. And he also didn’t do it for the money, but he also of course needs money. But also it was, you know, that exchange people taking care of people and when you had more, you would give more as well and all that kind of stuff.
But of course, the, it’s not how life is in these days. And I mean, I even remember, you know, I think you started with very, very low prices. I think even probably the first ceremony you did it probably for,
Sam Believ: it was extremely cheap. Yeah. It was basically, for me personally, we didn’t make any money for the first eight months of our existence.
Meaning like, I would spend money. Mm-hmm. More than, than making them. So it was, it was, it was a completely passion-based business. Like I was just stoked about being able to have ayahuasca without leaving my home. Mm-hmm. And like, have other people enjoy that experience. Mm-hmm.
Oliver Glozik: And then I remember I saw a Facebook post about you, like, oh, you used to have like very great local prices and all that kind of stuff.
And now those prices go up and like, you know, I see it’s getting commercialized and all that kind of stuff. It’s like, come on man. Because also for us to create these spaces, it takes a lot of energy and resources as well to, for people to enjoy the place and to run a business. And everybody who’s run a business for them, it’s, they understand it for people who have not run a business, it’s, not as easy to understand, but there’s a lot of, you know, like you need to have a first aid kit there. You need to have so many other things that you don’t even think about when you first think, okay, I’ll just have some people over get the title there. He shares some ayahuasca. Yeah. Okay. That’s one thing.
But if you didn’t do that professionally, then if you start thinking he really likes you must be sweet. Yeah. And then the more then you talk about hosting the, the microphone and the camera it and it just like
Sam Believ: keeps on the music and the food instruments. You need to buy food for one, one week in advance and you need to have forages and you need to plan the menus and you need to get a bus to bring people here.
You need everyone to come to the pickup spot at the right time. And, and if you think about it, what if
Oliver Glozik: for two months the retreat slows down?
Yeah.
Oliver Glozik: And not a lot of people come. If you think about it, you would want the retreat center to also have. Money saved up. So that doesn’t mean it’s the, they don’t get the, the retreat is gonna die off.
And all the important work that we are doing stops as well. So in a way,
Sam Believ: I think it, it is, it is paradoxical, right? Somebody can go to, they can go to a, an expensive restaurant and just throw out couple hundred bucks and be like, you know, that’s just whatever. Or they can go to like a fancy hotel, but then like, go to a place that will change their lives.
And spend, you know, a couple hundred dollars seems unacceptable because of the spiritual. And it is for some reason means that you don’t deserve money. Or there’s this weird thing about money being a bad thing. What money is is energy, right? Let’s say we go back 5,000 years ago, there’s no money. You have a cow and I have io right?
You come, you get your healing, you give me a cow, right? You don’t have a cow. And everyone just gives what they want, but money is energy. You give us this energy, we give you another form of energy in your healing, which ends up making even more money because as a healthy individual, you, you, you get lo you get, you lose all those blockages that stop you from being successful.
And and you progress more and it makes the world a better place and like so and so. But for some, for some reason, there is this stigma about like, no, I, I don’t say anything about I was retreats that charge 5,000 plus dollars per a week. It is, you know, there, there is a way you can, you can become greedy about it, but when it’s like a reasonable price and you still don’t feel like, you know, like the spiritual work deserves any payment.
That’s, that, that’s what we, I guess we talk about because it’s like a. Pet peeve, you know, something that, that hurts us a lot. But regarding, on the, on the work subject of it, it is absolutely the most difficult job I’ve ever had in my life. But at the same time, it’s the, it’s a job I enjoy the most than any other jobs that I had before in my life.
But it comes to a point where I work when I sleep, like sometimes I’m sleeping, and then I’m like, there’s still like plans in my head and all the, you know, improvements and how I could do this and how I could do that. It just never stops. And then I wake up to go to the toilet and then I start thinking about work and I couldn’t fall asleep.
I’m literally struggling myself right now with that concept. It’s like, because I, because I like it so much. And also, but yeah, this is, this is the life of facilitator for you guys, the life of an entrepreneur
Oliver Glozik: too, and the life of
Sam Believ: entrepreneur and like an entrepreneur would understand. Then she’s like, yeah, yeah, I’m in the same boat.
So this episode is about us complaining pretty much. And I know maybe nobody will listen to it, but it’s still good, good for us to talk about it. Right. It’s,
Oliver Glozik: I think it’s also have different perspectives, right. And for people to understand both sides. And I think the best people, like sometimes I, I tell the prize and somebody’s like, oh, only that much.
Mm-hmm. And that’s, those are the reactions that I love hearing. Yeah. Because, and also interestingly, people who are financially successful, many times they are the people who are the most grateful for the experience there. ’cause they
Sam Believ: understand the difficulty of creating an experience like this, maybe because they’ve done something similar in their business.
Oliver Glozik: And also in the end, it goes back to self-responsibility as well, you know, that, just because you come here for a one week retreat doesn’t mean that all of your problems will go away. Doesn’t mean that you need to be healed. Doesn’t mean that everything needs to be perfect, but they’re gonna where you go, they’re gonna create something and it’s gonna help you take the next step in your mind.
Let’s
Sam Believ: talk about that a little bit. About managing expectations. Mm-hmm. Yes. There’s the retreat begins and you’ve done every, everything right, and you got 20 people to commit and you got the mold to come on the bus picks for at the right time, and they, they’re now at your retreat and now you get 20 individuals with 20 different completely different life stories and issues, and they all want to be fixed.
And some of them want to see crazy vision. Some of them want to. Ayahuasca to just take all their problems away. And they like borderline, they want to guarantee, like, you know, here I’m doing ayahuasca. You know, like, is it, is it sure that like all my problems will go away? And some just want some growth.
Some just want, miraculously in my experience, 95% of people get exactly what they want with only one key ingredient. And that is them doing the work, which means that they need to lower their expectation and actually accept what the medicine is giving them. Because a lot of times there’s people that get absolutely gold nuggets thrown in them and then just say like, oh no, I didn’t feel anything.
No, this is not what I want. Because ayahuasca will never give you what you want, but it will always give you what you need
Oliver Glozik: as Yes.
Sam Believ: Yeah. So. How do you deal with unrealistic expectations in your work? All over?
Oliver Glozik: I think, I think the most frustrating thing also as facilitators is when people don’t connect easily with the medicine. Also that’s why we do longer retreats, at least with two ceremonies or four ceremonies, because if you have one night of ceremony and you then put all that expectation, everything needs to happen that one night, it’s, you know, you put also that experience in a bit of a box and all that kind of stuff.
But the longer you stay at the retreat, the more things are allowed to develop as well. And you know, I, I always tell people, I cannot tell you how your experience is going to be. Like, I can tell you that we will take care of you, that you’ll be safe. And the one of the biggest things is. Most important is how are you living your life after the retreat?
And the indigenous are also saying, don’t just look for the immediate effect of ayahuasca, but the things that happen after. And I know you have many magnificent stories and I wanna share a couple as well. So there was a person that came to the retreat and his intention was to feel unconditional love.
And he didn’t get to feel that in his ayahuasca ceremony, disappointed, but two months later, he’s now becoming a dad. He’s gonna know how unconditional love feels like. And of course it’s also difficult to say as you now becoming a dad because he drank ayahuasca with that intention and all that kind of stuff.
But I’m sure you’ve experienced many of those mystical, magical. Be careful with your attention guys, synchronicities as well. And other times, time somebody came to retrieve. The first day he got back to his job, he got fired.
Mm-hmm.
Oliver Glozik: And you know, of course that’s not something that anybody’s looking forward to experience, but then you have to be honest with yourself, how much did I like my job?
How much did my boss value me? How was the, could I creatively express myself or was I really limited into a box? And then when you purge a lot by was you move a lot of energies and then things start to change in your life. And then do you keep on knocking back on the door that closed or do you maintain that level of trust and confidence and move forward that something else?
Better is coming my way. He ended up working for a different company, company where he could work remotely. He only just had to work half as much, was making the same amount of money. So things turned out to be very good for him. But it required him when. Those difficult things came up after the, the retreat to maintain that level of trust, confidence.
And that’s a difficult time to maintain the trust and confidence. When things are going well, it’s easy to be that, but if things are going tough and maintain that, so I would say,
Sam Believ: I’ve recently heard this analogy, which is really good. It’s like growth is painful. Mm-hmm. And everything in life to grow requires pain.
It’s like, you know, when when a crab wants to become a bigger crab, it needs to like take his shell off and like grow a new one and become vulnerable. It’s like growth requires pain and this vulnerability and it’s like, let’s say he’s, he’s sometimes a relationship is falling apart and you’re grabbing to it and it’s not for you and you’re still grabbing for it and you’re just losing your time instead of just accepting and, and maybe another opportunity to resolve, which will be better.
It’s like it’s almost us, ourselves pushing away good things in our lives because of. Some weird sort of attachment thing. Like, oh, I, I can’t be fired because why? Because my ego, right? But then it’s like the getting fired was the best thing that could ever happen to that guy. So it’s so interesting. Know how the, the healing doesn’t come as you expect.
It’s not gonna be like you stand there, then the ray of golden light will hit you and all your problems will go away forever. Forever. It comes in a, in a, sometimes the healing comes in a form of a, you know, a slap, somebody slaps you. I mean, not, not physically, but it can be a, something that happens to you that’s completely puts you out of balance and is completely offensive, but it then results in something awesome.
Makes, makes you have to move, right? Yeah. And you need to understand, you need to learn and you need to start to listen to these cues that the universe provides you, universe, the god, the plant, spirit, whatever is more comfortable for you to believe in. Hmm. It just guides you in the form of those. It’s not always in the form of like a gentle pushes.
Sometimes it’s slaps and kicks. Yeah. But listen to it. Listen when it comes to you and we, we don’t necessarily always know what’s good for us. Mm-hmm. And sometimes plant medicines can help understand.
Oliver Glozik: Yes. And I’m so grateful for Ayahuasca because I feel like what Ayahuasca is really good at, it’s making those emotional shifts.
It’s one thing to understand it with your head. Like, oh yeah, it’s okay. That relationship was gone and I learned something from it. It’s another thing to emotionally move on from, from it or anything that happened to you. And Ayahuasca can really deliver those shifts. And then also after is very important because you might notice, because that neuro pathway is like.
You fall back into it, but then you also, it’s then becomes a decision like, do I want to keep subscribing to my victim story and keep reliving that? Or now that I got this emotional impact, do you, do I start going on different directions as well?
Sam Believ: At least you get that flexibility and choice. Mm-hmm.
You get the tool. ’cause actually I ask from like, medicine perspective does give you the flexibility. Mm-hmm. It’s proven, you know, by, by science psychedelics in general allow you to do that.
Oliver Glozik: And I think with, I don’t want to like hate on before right now. But I think it’s like sometimes I feel like people who are really looking for that next level experience are sometimes more drawn to bfo and it takes you from zero to 100.
Whereas with Ayahuasca, you have to work through the things and however much you work through it, it doesn’t just depend on the plan. It also. It depends on your willingness to go through it. You know, for example, we have in the tradition of of, of, of the zabi macha, they have this purgative, it’s called ato.
And you drink it and it’s like six to eight hours. You vomit between three to five, five times you have to go to the bathroom. 10 to 15 I’ve,
Sam Believ: before I’ve done
Oliver Glozik: it her, and after that you’ll connect with ayahuasca. Like, but you know, some people are like, oh no, I don’t want to take it. It’s like, well, are you ready to do what’s necessary?
Oh, no, I already, my, my stomach is hurting. I’m not sure if I want to drink another cup. Well take the next step if you really want that step. So I think the expectation thing is not that big of a topic for me with the participants because of the conversations we’re having before the retreat and in the retreat about those expectations.
As well, but it, it’s not a, it requires you to, to work on it and it’s gonna come most likely in different ways than you expected, but the doors open up, energy will be freed up and then it’s up to you or you take that energy.
Sam Believ: Okay. So I think we can wrap up on our conversation about facilitator’s life.
I hope it was interesting to you guys and I, I know some of you might, might have been curious about certain aspects of a, you know, life of, as a facilitator and, and on ayahuasca in general. I ask you all to leave a comment in in the comment section, ask about what do you wanna learn more about ayahuasca or plant medicines or life of a facilitator, whatever questions might have come to mind.
Leave them in the comment. This podcast is is very new, but we are going to make more episodes and Oliver might jump back on sometime as well. So last ask for me as a facilitator, you know treat your facilitators well. You know, tho those are people that chose path and life of helping other people.
And when you’re giving all your soul, know your heart to help heal somebody and then just say like, oh, the food was not salty enough. I hate you. Of course not that way, but something like that. Something minuscule and insignificant. Don’t do that. You know, be nice to your facilitators. Give them love. Appreciate them.
Same goes to shamans. Anyone who puts their. You know, their life, their soul in line to help others heal. Just be nice to them, you know, take care of them. That’s, that’s, that’s my parting words. What do you say over, I think
Oliver Glozik: absolutely and also see everybody as human, everybody with their mistakes as well.
Don’t put us on a pedestal either. You know, sometimes you can think like, oh, you know, these, this amazing shaman or this, that, or whatever. But everybody has their things that they’re working through that they are struggling with. And I think that’s also an important message to share that we are not this enlightened guru as life figured out or whatever, but we are just as much on the journey.
We put our heart and soul into it. And you know, if you are interested on going on this journey, you, Columbia is a hotspot. It’s a growing. Amazingly. And come here, experience it for yourself. And thank you very much, Sam for that invitation. Looking forward to sharing more.
Sam Believ: Yeah, we’re, we’re no gurus.
We’re basically couple steps in front, but that’s enough to be couple steps in front to actually show you where to go. Like, oh, I’ve been there. You know, come, come follow me. So, yeah, guys, thank you for listening or watching. Once again, it was me, Sam from Laro Retreat and Oliver Klo here. And if you wanna attend one of our retreats you can find my retreats here, this beautiful venue@wire.com.
And Oliver, where can they find you if they want to join one of your events on the website, I was-retreat.com. I was-retreat.com. You heard it? Thank you guys. Thank you for listening and, i’m looking forward to seeing you in the next episode.